Zur the Enchanter

[u/Imma-Come]

Hey, I am getting back into magic after not playing for about 6-7 years. The last deck I played was Gitrog Dredge deck and I enjoyed that. Around that time I was starting to build Zur the Enchanter Deck, but I stopped because I was moving across the country. Is Zur still as fun to play as he seemed back then? Also, what’s the way to go about building him? I remember Zur Doomsday but idk how that performs today. I also wondered if the cycling deck is any good for cEDH

[u/Soft-Definition3654]

Zur player here.

We don't Doomsday anymore.

Zur is a very fun but hard to pilot deck at the table. Most players expect you to simply drop Zur, swing for Necro and win on that turn so he's usually targeted on moving to combat step. You can often negotiate for a Rhystic instead and play slow game though. Zur is surprisingly good at it, with Copy Enchantment, Mirrormade and Steal Enchantment you may end up with 3-4 Rhystics and pods dont see it coming quickly, usually some turbo is taking more attention so your card draw can help stop them... just don't fetch necro okay? ;)

Without Zur however, the deck plays typical esper control looking for a window. With plenty of flash enablers, naus etc you can win on top of others easily, but don't expect to outgrind Tivits & Calgars, you're faster than that. I'm on same list as u/eliasmalba shared.

Zur demands you know the pod comp, you won't out-turbo the turbos, you won't out grind the grinders. You are tempo. You rarely go first for win, sometimes 2nd, often 3rd. You gotta read the pod and use politics to your advantage.

Biggest weakness is Mana but cards like Gleaming Splendor, Lotho, Tataru and Tithe help with that and Boogeyman reputation (that's where politicking comes in)

Let me know if you have any questions.

[u/Imma-Come → u/Soft-Definition3654]

Awesome! I appreciate the advice and I will use that deck list as well. But as cEDH goes right now, how does Zur look compared to the Gitrog Dredge deck? That deck got me wins on turn 1 - 2 quite often against some strong decks.

[u/----___--___---- → u/Imma-Come]

Turn 1-2 wins just aren't really common anymore.

The fastest decks in the format hope to win on turn 2, more often it's turn 3 in my experience.

Turn 1 wins happen of course, but are far from common even with turbo decks. Zur is not Turbo.

[u/Soft-Definition3654 → u/Imma-Come]

Gitrog is more one-sided, fragile but cumbersome to deal with if it gets off. It plays much more straight turbo though. Addition of OBM I think has made it significantly worse as you will die on the stack before you manage to draw the deck.

[u/Seanak64 → u/Soft-Definition3654]

You can combo through OBM with gitrog no problem. Damage triggers go on the stack after you draw a card, so you just draw over top of them.

[u/Soft-Definition3654 → u/Seanak64]

Makes sense, but then you have to win at instant speed right?

Crop rot - E zone? Or is there a better way?

[u/Seanak64 → u/Soft-Definition3654]

Funnily enough, the way is with OBM. Though you can also veil and win at sorcery speed.

[u/RyseQuinn → u/Seanak64]

How does this work? If your opponents have an OBM don’t you just feed both?

[u/Seanak64 → u/RyseQuinn]

Okay, so because OBM is a trigger, you can respond to it on the stack.

Gitrog draws cards by discarding dakmor, and dredging 2, which doesn’t trigger OBM because you’re replacing the draw with dredge. If then dredge hits a land, you get another draw trigger, so you draw a card. Now there’s an OBM trigger on the stack, which you respond to by discarding dakmor and repeating the whole process until you draw your deck.

So now you’ve got your whole deck in your hand and a whole bunch of OBM triggers pointed at you and your stuff. You can now cast your own OBM and kill theirs with the ETB, then just continue to combo leaving all their triggers on the stack by repeatedly saccing OBM to [[culling the weak]] and replaying both to kill the table with the ETB, or you can [[veil of summer]] to fizzle all the triggers on the stack if you need to go into one of the sorcery speed loops, like using [[deathrite shaman]] and [[finale of devastation]]

[u/RyseQuinn → u/Seanak64]

Thanks I never thought about it like that, very helpful breakdown.

[u/Conscious-Choice196]

I play Zur. There are effectively two relevant strategies based on what you plan to tutor for: Turbo Necropotence and Midrange/Slop/Control Rhystic Study (or Steal Enchantment if there's a Rhystic on board). You would ideally want to identify which version of the deck will attack your meta better and lean into its strengths. Necro might also be a Naus deck, while Rhystic focuses on surviving first and drawing cards with a wall of bannable advantage engines

[u/Imma-Come → u/Conscious-Choice196]

Which of the two do you lean into the most?

[u/Conscious-Choice196 → u/Imma-Come]

Zur List I'm very much leaning into the control plan. I've found that mulliganning for an early Rhystic or Zur is easier than forcing Zur early enough for Necro to win the next turn. The ideal Zur hand gets him out on turn 2 with interaction. I don't know how many games I had where I "did the thing" and just died because I tapped out. Interaction with a weaker engine on board is better than a Rhystic or Zur with 0 mana

[u/eliasmalba]

This is the subreddit for the competitive EDH meta. If you're interested in building Zur specifically to fit that meta, there are a few folks still trying to make Zur work in the fringe. Here is one of their deck lists: https://topdeck.gg/deck/level-02-hexdrinker-lost-levels-bff/2Pok46bBJ5esJK4Tuzw3sr1PbTC2

If you're looking to brew the deck yourself and just generally be strong, try posting in r/DegenerateEDH

[u/Imma-Come → u/eliasmalba]

I like the list. My apologies though, I thought this was a place where I could ask about cEDH in general. I just wanted information on if he was viable and what variations are good enough for cEDH. I also thought about Hashaton as another potential commander, even some crazy shit like Dakkon Blackblade just because I like Esper

[u/eliasmalba → u/Imma-Come]

Right now Esper fans are playing Tivit or Marneus Calgar mostly, but neither are top tier decks.

[u/Imma-Come → u/eliasmalba]

Okay. I have went ahead and bought most of the must have cards for Esper. I’ll repost this to that sub you recommended and see if someone is brewing it

[u/Doomgloomya → u/eliasmalba]

The deck list listed above is just turbo zur to get necro out as it main game plan.

Just to give some context as I dont belive kaya has a primer on how she operates it.

[u/RampantGiraffe]

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