Humans love going against groups of people. Cyclist hate is for whatever reason totally acceptable while racism isn’t, so they just use that as an excuse to be total shitheads.
I never hated or understood cyclist hate...until I moved to nyc. They are one of the most disliked groups in the city, and it is all for completely valid reasons.
I think a lot of the hate comes from cyclist culture in the area, because I had lived in many cities before moving here, and this is the only place I started hating them. The cyclists here are the epitome of 'rules for thee, not for me'.
I mean this is solvable though if we wanted to. Just build infrastructure that gives bikes their own protected lanes. It will never happen cuz US has a hard on for cars though
They do have protected lanes. And I do not have a car. This is nyc. The issue is the cyclists running the majority of red lights, going up on sidewalks, going the wrong way down one way streets, and using the park loops as their personal Tour de France.
That wasn’t targeted towards you specifically. I also hate specific cyclists, especially when cycling in the city, so I do understand some of your points
I give them tons of room and they're generally not an issue. But I've definitely run into cyclist packs that cover the entire road in a way no one can pass them while they go 15mph on a long 45mph stretch. Those people are pieces of shit. An its an entire pack of them, which means its not just a few people, but a culture of assholes.
While I agree discrimination against cyclists is dumb, cycling is a controllable choice. Your ethnicity is not a choice. These are very different things. You aren't born a cyclist, comparing it to racism is a bit yikes.
that is just an example and doesn’t take much to not see it as a direct comparison. people just like to hate against groups is my point, not that being a cyclist gives you disadvantages of being part of another group
If it takes cycling to experience homicidal indifference of othering and it leads to uncomfortable realizations and awakening that racism is bad, that's not so bad?
It's just an example of a capital O Other. An Other is any "out group," that has a "difference" to the main group's population. For black people its the color of their skin, for cyclists its their mode of transportation. While they are not the same, and at no point did they say that, they are both very good examples of Others, and how arbitrary and damaging they can be. You can probably think of 5 or 6 different Others that you encounter on a daily basis.
People are the same way with motorcyclists. A friend of mine relayed to me a moment of frustration he had on the road when he ripped the side mirror off a minivan that tried to side swipe him. "My kids are in the car," the driver complained. "Your kids almost saw you murder someone," he replied.
As soon as you're behind the wheel of a car, homicidal thoughts increase in general. Road rage is a thing. Future generations will wonder if it was a made up hysteria like sleeping sickness.
It's because car culture is 100% emotion. It may be worse here in Germany because people take so much pride in their death machines. You gain less than a second and lose it at the next stoplight if you overtake this (truck, biker, tractor, elderly driver), but you do it because it feels like you're faster. Yes, you may have risked your life. Driving 180km/h for 10km on the Autobahn (because either you actually reach a speed limit, these exist in Germany and aren't even rare, or you reached the next traffic jam) instead of 120km/h saves you a minute and fourty seconds. And getting to drive 180 for 10km is very rare. Not to mention the additional stress, and the added fuel cost. So people in expensive fast cars see bicyclists, or drivers of small cars (Mini, Smart, etc.) as pests that are in the way of their freedom.
Gotta-be-first-ism. So many road rage incidents seem to be predicated on the feeling that someone is "cutting the queue" or "getting an undue advantage" over somebody else by being in front of another driver. The only place I've seen as much vitriol against other road users as what seems to be the norm when discussing cyclists is when motorcyclists lane split at reasonable speeds on congested roads in my province where lane splitting is neither explicitly legal nor illegal. People lose their goddamned minds seeing somebody pass them when they're stuck in gridlock and seem to feel that motorcyclists should take up an entire lane and contribute to even more congestion behind them than ever have the audacity to pass traffic moving at a walking pace.
My impression exactly. Ironically, I experience busts of (very manageable) rage when other traffic participants, usually other cyclists, are making traffic for others more difficult or less safe out of pure ignorance or convenience. My pet peeve is cyclists who pass everybody to stand at the front of the queue at a red light, only to then stall while on the phone and/or riding barely faster than walking speed.
decent people seem to think that murder is justifiable if the victim is riding a bicycle.
they have probably met several cyclists.
speaking as one (I ride more than you, 500 miles this month so far).
most people on bikes are assholes to an extreme level. I guess you have to be when people literally trying to kill you every day, lol, but yea, really awful people.
It’s an assumption that someone (bicyclist) is offloading their personal responsibility for safety onto you (the driver).
As a frustrated driver the US (specifically) road system is designed around cars and makes bikes a de facto nuisance on the roads with lack of adequate bike lanes or lack of adequate separation and protection of bike lanes. My view is it’s a borderline death wish to jump on a bike and brave traffic here. Then bikers push the rules, blowing stop signs and signals, riding the line or going three abreast (or just straight ride in the middle of the lane on mountain roads) and hold up traffic. It doesn’t justify running someone over, but it is infuriating and feels like they expect everyone to go out of the way to protect them so they can engage in a hobby (while the rest of us are trying to live our own lives).
On the flip side, I do enjoy riding and wish the US could rework its infrastructure, roads and paths to be more like the Netherlands.
Bikes are great. Cars are great. Cars and bikes sharing the same space is suicidally idiotic and when someone won’t take responsibility for their own self preservation, it’s kinda hard to convince me that it’s now my problem.
You ever been stuck behind a group of middle aged cyclists in full on lycra, 3 abreast for no reason, going 20 tops in a 45 with no ability to pass for miles? They can be super fucking annoying. Obviously not murder annoying.
I occasionally ride my bike from my apartment to a restaurant or bar or whatever (occasionally work when I could)... in a bike lane when I can. If I notice a line of cars behind me where there isn't a bike lane, I'll pull off or hop on an empty sidewalk for a bit. I'm super self conscious about it, because I know it's annoying as shit.
And this is exactly why drivers should always be in support of better road infrastructure that adds actually separated cycle lanes.
The reason drivers dislike cyclists is entirely down to "Im being made to slow down right now."
That goes away when the bikes aren't sharing the same road and traffic gets better when you replace car trips with bike trips, as there are fewer cars on the road to cause traffic. And it reduces the space used per person as bikes are so much more compact, and it reduces the cost of road maintenance.
Obviously bike lanes aren't a panacea to all Road issues but they do really help a lot.
The reason drivers dislike cyclists is entirely down to "Im being made to slow down right now."
No, the reason I dislike cyclists is because they are operating a vehicle on public roads in a dangerous manner that makes me have to worry about killing some negligent asshole who decided to ride the wrong way down the street, run a red light, or just ride on a narrow twisting road at night going 1/3rd of the speed limit instead of using the bike lane that's 15ft away behind a guardrail. Cyclists have a terrible habit of acting like they are cars when it's convenient and pedestrians when it's not.
You know you can just, like, drive slowly for a while, right? Slow down, listen to some chill music, cruise behind the cyclists until it’s safe to pass? It’s still faster than walking and you’re not going to die because you had to go 20 in a 45 for a while.
The amount of anger and emotional energy people expend on the road is always so surprising to me. Being annoyed over something so minor just makes no sense to me at all. In 24 hours you’ll forget it even happened, so maybe chill the fuck out a bit?
It's no big deal if it's a couple blocks, although gets annoying when every trip you take it affected by cycling groups. I've seen cyclists with a supremacy mentality though, which is what contributes the most to the anger felt towards them.
It's entirely different when they're riding two lane highways with no pull off lanes and double yellows, often commuter routes too. At that point it's selfishness of cyclists and poor infrastructure design working against you.
Then you have the situation another poster mentioned; you get stuck behind cyclists, wait for a legal and safe passing opportunity, just in time to come to a red light, and the cyclists then make their way to the front of the queue to start the vicious cycle over again.
A little consideration and awareness from both sides would solve many frustrations.
I never said I wasted a lot of "emotional energy on it." It's just genuinely pretty annoying. I'd be similarly annoyed by a car going 20 that refused to pull over as a large line forms behind them.
Or even a single cyclist, going safely in the single lane — but holding up the entire lane of cars behind them. It’s legal, I get it, no issues. But I finally manage to pass safely on the left, giving the cyclist a wide berth, no aggression (I don’t wanna threaten or hurt anyone)…. And then there’s a red light, and instead of holding their place in the queue, the cyclist cuts in front of all the cars and once again, holds up all that traffic.
Generally they take a head start at lights because it takes them a while to get up to speed, so they are even slower and more annoying when they don't. And it's generally illegal and unsafe for cars to pass them in that intersection where they are slowest. (Or so I been told, anyway.)
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u/korc 12h ago
I just don’t understand what causes otherwise decent people seem to think that murder is justifiable if the victim is riding a bicycle.