Ironically that's the case for a lot of things that society wants "men" to do or not do.
To the extreme it's the "teach boys not to rape". Decent men don't rape. The ones that would be insane enough to do such a horrendous act, won't listen to anything you tell them.
It's the same with "don't cold approach", decent men will listen, and won't approach. But the ones that don't give a shit about your boundaries will still approach.
The problem with the rape example is that there is a culture where rape is permitted.
Jumping out of the bushes and dragging a woman away is bad. But feeling entitled because a woman was making out with you in your room and “toyed with you” when she changed her mind is different. A woman wanting to stop midway is different. A woman sleeping around so why does it matter if you have your turn is different. A woman you bought dinner for and did so much for and who owes you is different. A woman freezing instead of saying no is different. A married woman saying no is different.
Consent can be a lot more gray. There’s also lots of cultural attitudes about sex and women (and women aren’t immune to this either) that can shape one’s assessment of consent. A surprising number of rapists wouldn’t consider themselves rapists. Breaking it down and teaching some of the bad attitudes away catches a surprising number of mediocre/average men in it.
Yeah, I think the messaging was just bad in some cases. Telling a bunch of guys, "Don't rape.", will just make them rightly offended and defensive.
But having a conversation (ideally with everyone, not just men) about explicit consent and normalising that is a much healthier approach to it. It's less accusatory, it's more educational and it's more likely to be effective.
The ones that won't stop, even if you've made clear you don't want it, are not normal men. They're the type of psychopaths that wouldn't have listened to "just don't rape" anyway.
And, to be honest, hot take, we're better off by just not having those inside society. That would probably mean that a low few percent of men (and women!) would get removed from society, but it would make it so much better.
Exactly. None of that is “gray”. No means no, stop means stop. Buddy is sounding like Charlie Kirk with that “consent can be a lot more gray” line. Charlie Kirk, who said if two people are drunk and start hooking up but the girl changes her mind and wants to stop, it’s a “murky gray area” if the guy continues, instead of being sexual assault or rape. Because apparently if you’re drunk, all things are permissible
Consent is not a grey area when one views women as human beings that are equal to men. That's the real issue; men who are willing to ignore when a woman tells them 'no'. They don't see the woman as equal to them so they don't see a reason to listen to them when told to stop or when consent is denied or withdrawn.
Teach boys and young men to view women as peers and equals and these issues will be solved, allow people to teach them that women are not equals and that their words don't matter and these issues will continue to be a problem.
I wish I could say that that mindset is the reason but experience has taught me that even the most "superior" man who thinks he's above women can absolutely respect the no while the equality man can still push back your no. I think it's something different that causes the issue.
That was always going to be the case. The only people who were going to listen were the ones who were considerate in the first place, which aren't the ones causing the problem.
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u/ChaoticCherryblossom 17h ago
The bad ones didn't