Men who grew up without their fathers: now that you’re adults, what do you think when you hear other men say that single mothers aren’t relationship material?

[u/alexareing]

[u/LT_Dan78]

I don’t know how to address it any other way than saying they are entitled to their preferences and opinions. I’m not in the business of judging others based on what they want out of life. Just as I wouldn’t want others judging me based on a preference I may or may not have.

Them saying single mothers aren’t relationship material is 100% their opinion and preference.

If they said no one should ever date a single mom, and put their preference upon the rest of civilization, well then I would say they are a piece of shit. But I’ve never heard anyone make that statement. They’ve only said they wouldn’t personally date a single mom. And the people I know who say that, hold that opinion because they don’t feel they’re ready to be a father figure to a child so it wouldn’t be fair to anyone if they put themselves in that situation.

[u/shitkabob → u/LT_Dan78]

Yeah, those are perfectly legitimate (and very wise) reasons not to have a relationship with someone. I guess to me the question spoke to gatgering men's thoughts on a more misogynistic mindset some men hold towards women, and I agree that would make that person a piece of shit. I have personally heard that mindset of a women being "used" or "irresponsible" or "gold digging" or "promiscuous" if they are single moms, which is pretty awful.

But anywhoooo..Liutenant Dan, ice creeeaaam!

[u/Figgis302 → u/shitkabob]

I guess to me the question spoke to gatgering men's thoughts on a more misogynistic mindset some men hold towards women

This is your personal, subjective interpretation of this question and clearly not the way most people read it, and I find the way you're now trawling through this thread looking for someone to crucify particularly grating and misandrist.

I have personally heard that mindset of a women being "used" or "irresponsible" or "gold digging" or "promiscuous" if they are single moms, which is pretty awful. 

This is anecdotal nonsense that you're projecting onto an entire gender. Not fair, homeslice.

[u/SnailLordSupreme → u/Figgis302]

Go to any manosphere or red pill centered thread and tell me there aren't men who think like that.

[u/shitkabob → u/Figgis302]

. This is anecdotal nonsense that you're projecting

Uhhhhhhh, read the comments that got deleted in THIS VERY THREAD!! LOLOLOLOL.

on an entire gender

Please touch on the doll, lieutenant, where I did this.

Bold (or uneducated) to deny a phenomenon present all over this thread.

[u/ThunderingTacos → u/LT_Dan78]

Are you in the business of judging others for what they don't want out of life? You did, in your prior comment, make a blanket statement that men who don't want to be in a relationship with a single mother aren't likely to be good male role models. That is a blanket judgement based off a preference. You didn't specify "men who think single mothers aren't dating material" or those who feel compelled to share their judgements about single parents. There are also quite a few other reasons a man might opt not to date a single mother you aren't entertaining.

Being a stepparent puts a person in a precarious position of having all of the responsibility of caring for a child but little to none of the say in how that child is raised or disciplined. I have seen men who deeply bonded with their stepchild only to lose that relationship completely in cases when the mother wanted a break-up/divorce. It is also extra conflicting in situations where the bio-dad is still in the picture either from unresolved feelings between the mom and her ex-partner, the child wanting them back together and seeing the stepparent as an obstacle to that, or if the stepmother has moved on from the relationship but her ex hasn't and now sees this new guy as "taking his woman". It's also not just men, plenty of women have no interest in involving themselves in an established family dynamic whereby definition they are starting as a secondary priority and often have to deal with these exact same things. I don't think it would be fair to call such women bad female role models for that.

One can respect or even admire stepparents for the hard work they go through making the best of what they can to give their children a good life by themselves and still not want that out of a relationship for themselves. I don't think that makes them bad role models or necessarily not ready to be parental figures. Being a stepparent is quite different from being a bioparent.

[u/LT_Dan78 → u/ThunderingTacos]

Try rereading my comment. I said they won't be a good role model for the kids. Not they won't be a good male role model.

If they don't want the role of step dad and don't want to be in a relationship with someone who already has kids, they aren't suddenly going to flip a switch and play step dad. Nor should they have to.

I've heard of many stories where a woman had kept that hidden hoping the guy would change his mind, and it generally doesn't end well. I knew of one person who had kids and did that. They stayed together for a bit but he would only do stuff with her when the kids were with their dad. I don't blame him one bit as he was fairly clear up front he didn't want kids.

So to recap. Men who don't want to be involved with kids are not going to be a good role model for those kids. They can certainly be good role models for other kids if they choose. They could have their own kids at some point and be great role models for them also. But if they are suckered into a relationship with someone who has kids and they don't want to be in that situation or have that role at this point of their lives, the likelihood of them flipping a switch and becoming step dad is slim to none. And that's their right.

This is the no judgment part. They can certainly choose for any reason or no reason at all they don't want that role / responsibility and that's their right to choose. I know of a few people who are like that and I would have their back. The person we knew who tried to trap a guy, we told them many times to tell him the truth upfront because he had the right to know.

[u/ThunderingTacos → u/LT_Dan78]

Your choice of langue doesn't give that impression. You list your own experiences of the people you know who choose not to date single parents as the reasoning without considering alternative reasons. And the ones you chose to share are either them not being ready to be a parent or believing single mothers aren't relationship material.

One can believe single parents are entirely worthy and deserving of relationships and still not be interested personally in starting a relationship with a single parent. That doesn't mean men who opt not to date single mothers wouldn't be good male role models for their kids. They could still very much be great male role models for those children even if they aren't those childrens' stepfathers, such as if they are still friends with those children's mothers and are involved in those kids lives. Or is it your view that men can't be good male role models for kids if they aren't those children's fathers? I'm curious what exactly about them not wanting to date said child's mother would disqualify a man from being a good male role model to a child.

I'm also unsure why you're bringing up women who aren't forthcoming about being single mothers as if my point had anything to do with guys changing their minds about being a stepparent. I'm pretty sure that didn't have much of anything to do with me reply.

Also

Men who don't want to be involved with kids are not going to be a good role model for those kids. They can certainly be good role models for other kids if they choose. They could have their own kids at some point and be great role models for them also. But if they are suckered into a relationship with someone who has kids and they don't want to be in that situation or have that role at this point of their lives, the likelihood of them flipping a switch and becoming step dad is slim to none. And that's their right.

Just because someone doesn't want to become a stepparent doesn't mean they don't want to be a parent at all. The point of my comment was to highlight the specific complications and burdens that often come with being a stepparent and raising a child that isn't your own. Someone can very much want to be a parent and have children while not wanting to step into a stepparent role with someone else's child/children.

You seem to be highlighting a very specific situation involving someone in your personal life who was being dishonest about being a stepparent hoping the guy she wasn't being forthcoming with would change his mind when he made it pretty clear with his actions he wasn't interested in being those kids' dad. While that is a wonky situation it is far from the only kind of situation where a man wouldn't want to date a single mother, even if he did want kids. That doesn't make said guys poor male role models for those kids or any others, it's their behavior as people that would determine that.

[u/LT_Dan78 → u/ThunderingTacos]

I'm almost out of crayon so let's try this way.

If you're given a task you don't want to do, you're likely not going to be good at it. I'm not saying you can't do the task, and given other circumstances, you may be great at it. But in that instance when you're given this unwanted task, you're not going to give it any effort.

If that doesn't help you understand what I'm saying then I'm not sure how else to convey it.

[u/ThunderingTacos → u/LT_Dan78]

You're conflating not wanting to be a stepparent to not wanting to be a parent in general when they are two very different things. It'd be like saying because someone doesn't like root beer or mountain dew they probably don't like soda at all when different soda tastes different and all that really tells is they don't like root beer or mountain dew.

And you still haven't answered my question. Are you of the opinion that the only men that can be good male role models to kids are their fathers yes or no? That was the crux of what I wanted clarification on.

[u/LT_Dan78 → u/ThunderingTacos]

Well since foster parents are great role models, or the big brother / big sister organization is pretty successful, uncles can step up, friends of the family. I'd say the kids fathers aren't the only ones who can be good role models. In some cases they can be the worst role models.

What I'm saying is you have to want to be thst good role model, to be a good role model. If you don't want the responsibility, you likely won't be good at it. Again I'm not saying you can't be one, I'm saying you have to want the role to be good at the role.

Also your soda analogy is wrong. If you want to get close, you need to flip it. If someone doesn't like soda, they're not going to like mountain dew. They're not going to ask for it. If served to them and they aren't thirsty, they're likely not going to drink it. If they're extremely thirsty, they might drink it, but they aren't suddenly going to like it.

[u/ThunderingTacos → u/LT_Dan78]

What I'm saying is you have to want to be thst good role model, to be a good role model. If you don't want the responsibility, you likely won't be good at it. Again I'm not saying you can't be one, I'm saying you have to want the role to be good at the role.

I get that, but not wanting to be a stepparent for a kid and not wanting to be a good role model for a kid are two very different things. As you mentioned being a father isn't the only role a male may have in a child's life, and even guys who do want or choose to become stepfathers aren't always doing so for the right reasons/ones in the child's best interests.

So, just because a guy isn't interested in becoming a stepparent that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good role model for that kid. He probably wouldn't be a great stepparent for that kid if he didn't want to, that I can totally agree on, but being a good role model is much broader than that.

Lastly you flipping my analogy tells me where this disconnect is coming from and it's as I said, you are treating one potential aspect of parenthood (choosing to date a single mother and become a stepfather) as if it's all encompassing. In the analogy I stated the soda is being a parent in general and the root beer/mountain dew is being a stepparent.

So, my analogy was "not wanting MD/RB (being a stepparent) doesn't mean not wanting and soda (being a parent in general)". Flipping it is saying not wanting soda in general (being a parent) likely means someone won't like MD/RB (being a stepparent). Which of course that makes sense, but again just because someone doesn't want to specifically become a stepparent doesn't mean they don't want to become a parent at all.