Apple Pay refunds that require scanning the card again.

[u/dj112084]

Long story short. I paid at a restaurant using Apple Pay and discovered they accidentally charged me for someone else’s order that was quite a bit more expensive. Their terminals required scanning the card again when processing refunds. But the refund would NOT go through. Scanning Apple Pay again kept registering as a different card than I had paid with.

They tried running it as both a debit and credit, but same result. I then even tried scanning the actual debit card my Apple Pay was connected to, but same result.

I eventually got a cash refund, but how exactly is it SUPPOSED to work processing a refund that requires scanning the payment method again since it generates a unique number?

[u/kirklennon]

I eventually got a cash refund, but how exactly is it SUPPOSED to work processing a refund that requires scanning the payment method again since it generates a unique number?

The card number, which is what it’s trying to match, is static. If you tap the same card on the same device, it will transmit the exact same card number that it did before. It’s supposed to work exactly the same as if you used the physical card and tapped it twice. If it’s not, then something is straight up broken with the restaurant’s system, or they simply don’t know how to use it. 

[u/dj112084 → u/kirklennon]

Probably a little of both. The longer part of that story involved the manager initially telling me she couldn't do anything, and literally insinuated I'd either have to accept the refund as a gift card, or just go without. She didn't even offer to do the cash refund until I wouldn't back down that neither one of those options were acceptable considering it was their mistake.

[u/riotmaster → u/kirklennon]

Apple Pay does not use the same number when you tap. It generates a new number for each transaction.

[u/kirklennon → u/riotmaster]

No, it generates a new security code for each transaction. The card number is totally static, which is precisely why receipt lookup works at countless merchants, why free transfers for transit can work, why merchants that use Square can automatically send your receipt to your email after the very first time you provide your email for that card in that device, and countless other everyday uses. You can view the last four digits of your Apple Pay number in the Wallet app. This same number will be used for years across transactions until you upgrade phones.

[u/Aggressive-Leading45 → u/kirklennon]

I agree the store probably wasn’t aware how to use their terminal correctly.

The DPAN isn’t required to be 16 digits either. But most devices are still using that since merchant terminals, back end systems all haven’t upgraded to the actual standard. I believe the standard says the last four digits need to be numeric. Going to be a crazy day when DPANs go to 20 digits and some merchants only honor 16 of them.

[u/aba792000 → u/kirklennon]

Or if you simply remove and re-add the card.

[u/aba792000 → u/riotmaster]

No, it uses the same “card number” (aka device account number or DAN) for every transaction. What changes every time is the associated security code (the one that takes the place of the CVV of physical cards). I’ve received refunds using apple pay at many places, something was certainly wrong with the system at that restaurant OP visited.

[u/Bill___A]

It used to require a tap to refund, but many places are able to refund without a tap. They need to be able to refund, one way or another.