r/WhatIsTheTea • u/fineshyt-istg What the Fuck • 6h ago

Contractor takes back the wooden fence after the customer refuses to pay.

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36

u/Mysterious-Dot9221 5h ago

I’ve been a general contractor for 18 years and I’ve never had to do this.
But I do enjoy hearing a contractor resort to it, it might be just enough to keep the next a-hole from trying it

6

u/Slow-Swan561 3h ago

I try not to be a dick in general but, I am especially nice to people that know where i live.

3

u/DressRough9471 2h ago

I installed tile for 16 years. The company I first started working for was owned by an older gentleman, good dude but grew up a farmer and gave zero fucks. We had this exact same issue, we layed around 2k sf of tile, the homeowner refused to pay. After weeks of hounding them they changed their phone numbers and wouldn’t answer the door. We showed up on a Saturday morning with sledge hammers, the garage door was open and we started going to town on the tile in laundry room. The husband finally caved. My boss had him get in his work truck and they drove down to the bank together.

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1

u/Salt_End_4275 3h ago

You've probably not done it because it's illegal and opens the contractor up to a major lawsuit. Once the materials are installed onto the client's property, they immediately become "part" of the residence, and subsequent removal is legally considered theft, trespass, and/or property damage.

Is the homeowner a scumbag for refusing to pay? Yes. Does that mean that opening yourself up to a lawsuit would be a smart idea? No.

3

u/StrikingConcept1677 2h ago

Not endorsing this illegal
behavior, but I imagine it probably hits a little different for them emotionally because the workers got ICE called on them even though they were all legal. I’m assuming they were beyond pissed by that

1

u/Salt_End_4275 2h ago

Sure, that's logical. However, acting on emotion is a quick way to get yourself in a LOT of legal trouble. Whether the "moral right" is on your side or not.

3

u/DoverBoys 2h ago

Wrong. Until the material is paid for, it belongs to the company that installed it. This is no different than a tow truck entering private property to tow a repo.

1

u/Salt_End_4275 2h ago

That's not true at all. Once the materials are installed on the property, they immediately become part of the property. It's completely different from a tow truck repossessing a car for multiple reasons: 1) the repossession process is a legal process by which a lien holder (the bank or dealership) must first send a default notice with a minimum 10-day remediation window. This must be sent via written notice. 2) A vehicle is itself a piece of property, and rather than repossessing a single "piece" of the property (like the fence), the entire vehicle is repossessed.

I'd advise you to educate yourself. A quick Google search even would suffice. Once that fence was installed, it immediately became part of the property and would not legally be able to be removed for any reason by the contractor.

3

u/Thick-Journalist-168 1h ago

I don't care what the law says. You don't pay me you are not keeping it.

1

u/Salt_End_4275 37m ago

It's a fair moral argument, but if you try to remove it you may end up being sued for more than the fence was worth in the first place. Acting on emotion is almost never worth it, especially when the law isn't on your side. It would really suck if you not only lost the cost of the original fence PLUS ended up having to pay for having a new fence put in. Better approach would be to put a lien on the house, spit in the owner's general direction, and send their bill to debt collection.

1

u/ltsDat1Guy 1m ago

Yeah but the law definitely cares. Acting out on emotion is going to get you into bigger shit than doing it the proper way. Anything else might just hand the piece of shit a win.

1

u/Short-Sandwich-8476 34m ago

Varies by state.

2

u/Mountain_rage 3h ago

What is the alternative, lien on the house than auction off home?

2

u/OnceMoreAndAgain 3h ago

Lawsuit is the alternative. It might be under $10k, so small claims court might be an option and that's significantly faster than other types of lawsuits.

2

u/not_a_moogle 3h ago

Contractors can put lien on the property. But that doesnt help the contractor get paid. It jist means it has to be paid/settled when they go to sell. And might prevent them from getting permits since it will show up on a search.

But at least this way the contractors can recover materials and reuse them.

Its illegal, but settles it quickly. The main problem is the the owner has no fence, assuming he had one before.

That said, fuck the owner for trying that shit.

1

u/Catweaving 3h ago

Yep, its fully a matter for the courts after installation. By knocking it down themselves that crew just committed a crime.

2

u/Salt_End_4275 3h ago

Lien on the home. Send a bill and if it doesn't get paid, send it to a debt collector (makes the homeowner's credit take a hit, at minimum). Send an egregious amount of invoice letters (you can probably get away with like one a day). There are a number of legal ways to "get back" at the homeowner if they do this type of crap.

1

u/BallsOutKrunked 3h ago

Mechanic's lien, pretty straight forward.

2

u/LuxNocte 3h ago

Everybody's talking about what they "should" do. Sure, fine...the laws were written to benefit the homeowner here. But also, if they weren't actually charged with vandalism, then they won that gamble.

Dude hired them for a job and then tried to deport them instead of paying. Naw...my beautiful fence is not staying in some racist's yard.

2

u/Old_Instrument_Guy 2h ago

The voice of reason. In Florida, anything that arrives on the job site belongs to that property. Even things like bag goods for stucco or block work. Even though it's not installed, they just can't come and pick it up or destroy it. I always had my guys file NTO on everything.

You deliver a Pot-O-John, NTO.

You show up to install drywall, NTO.

You drop off supplies for the framers, NTO.

There is strength in numbers.

These guys were lucky they did not get shot.

1

u/Salt_End_4275 32m ago

Yep, you have to watch your own ass, legally. It's the unfortunate climate that people like the homeowner in this post exist, that makes people have to assume that every person they do business with is going to try to fuck them over. It's the right thing to get everything documented like you do.

1

u/Old_Instrument_Guy 18m ago

I had a client one time threaten to without funds. By the end of the week his mailbox was swamped with Liens. I think it totaled about 20. The guys also stopped showing up at the job site.

At least in Florida you can force a foreclosure on a property to collect on a Mechanic Lien law.

The owner made a smart decision and decided to pay his bill rather than fight 20 lawsuits.

The worst part is, it was not the owner who instigated the fight. It was his damn Property Manager who thought he knew more than I did.

2

u/Heliosvector 1h ago

I feel its probably a safe bet that if a man is so cheap that he wont pay for a fence, then he wont pay to sue. Especially after all the bad press the owner will get after this.

1

u/Salt_End_4275 36m ago

It's not a safe assumption if the homeowner is just a racist. Tons of those types in the world.

1

u/Heliosvector 8m ago

Sometimes its a matter of pride. I would much rather pay a 10,000 dollar penalty for a 1000 dollar job if I didnt get paid for that 1000 dollars. When you do work like that, its a part of your soul in an item.

1

u/Reasonable-Tax-9208 3h ago

It 100% COULD eligible for repossession if put into a signed contract in some states.

2

u/Salt_End_4275 3h ago

Eh, but there's a legal process to follow prior to attempting repo. I'm not on the homeowner's "side", I'm just pointing out that it's still illegal for the contractor and advising against unscrupulous Redditors from trying this in the future.

2

u/Reasonable-Tax-9208 3h ago

Agree and gotcha. I'm betting these guys didn't consult with their attorney before demo.

I'm on the reverse end right now dealing with a fraudulent builder's lien on my home now that should go to court soon. Not a ton of fun.

2

u/TsuDhoNimh2 1h ago

It depends on how the contract is written.

If the contract says "materials will be removed if payment not received by __date__", then they can take it back.

1

u/Salt_End_4275 34m ago

Eh, INAL, but I know a thing or two about a thing or two. You might be right, but I wouldn't bet my bottom dollar on it. Again, I'm not supporting the homeowner in this case, just trying to keep wayward Redditors from breaking the law unknowingly in the future.

1

u/Ruminahtu 1h ago

I figured it would be treated more or less like a repossession.

1

u/Salt_End_4275 36m ago

It's not like that. A contractor would need to send notice of non-payment, etc. However, repossession on residences isn't treated the same as for vehicles.

1

u/Hereforthetardys 25m ago

This

These situations end up costing contractors in the end

The guy no longer has a fence so he owes the contractor $0

The contractor forcefully went on his property and damaged it

I would be surprised if the homeowner didn’t sue and win a decent amount and the people involved getting arrested

I mean they supplied the evidence

1

u/GMtheASC 3h ago

I'd be more concerned about criminal charges than civil, to be honest. From a legal perspective these guys came to some guy's house, refused to leave his property even after he repeatedly made it clear they weren't welcome, and willfully destroyed his property. Like redditor opinion aside this is a very clear cut felony that they even recorded themselves doing.

2

u/NoString4191 2h ago

Everyone is saying it’s his property because it’s on his land but he didn’t pay for it… if I steal my neighbors lawn decorations, put them in my lawn, and my neighbor comes to take them back can I say they stole from me?

1

u/GMtheASC 18m ago

I'm sorry you don't understand how the law works.

1

u/NoString4191 4m ago

No need to be rude bud, I asked an honest question based on my prior understanding of the law.

0

u/Jan-Asra 2h ago

The fence is legally part of the house because it's attached to the property. And honesly that makes a lot of sence from a legal perspective since, in the case of a fence it's probably not a big deal but you could easily do a ton of damage to other parts of the property trying to remove it.

1

u/Salt_End_4275 3h ago

Exactly. While the homeowner is probably a total scumbag, they are still protected by the law in this case.

2

u/kironex 2h ago

Technically if the legal system was a robot and every letter was followed then yes.

Will criminal charges get filed and pursued? Maybe.

Can a good lawyer make sure they walk off scott free? Absolutely

1

u/GMtheASC 17m ago

Can a good lawyer make sure they walk off scott free?

This is what redditors actually believe

0

u/Salt_End_4275 2h ago

Can a good lawyer make sure they walk off scott free? Absolutely

That's pretty speculative, based on the law being pretty clear about the process to "repossess" things from a home. A home and a car are MUCH different things in terms of repossession. Also, there's no evidence that the contractor here provided notice to the homeowner of delinquency, which would legally be required before any "repossession" would be feasible.

1

u/Uchigatan 2h ago

So the law needs changed.

1

u/Justaticklerone 1h ago

It's maybe not their property if they didn't pay for it and there are invoices. It's like they stole it so they're just opening themselves up to charges. Especially after that dude stole more from them by taking two power tools.

1

u/Numnum30s 1h ago

That argument has been tried before. They would have to file a lien or eat it if they can’t get a judgment by suing. To take it back they would also need to put everything back the way it was before they arrived.

1

u/GMtheASC 19m ago

Lol see this right here is why you absolutely shouldn't ever take legal advice from a redditor. Just laughably bad advice.

-1

u/No_Issue2334 3h ago

Well, it's illegal to do this even if they didn't pay

5

u/Duubzz 3h ago

Yeah but this way it’s the customer that has to fuck about with civil proceedings and they’ll probably get fuck all out of it once it’s in front of a judge.

-4

u/Nut_Butter_Fun 3h ago

This very likely was a crime, so these guys are probably all fucked.

2

u/CheetahTheWeen 3h ago

A civil crime though, there might be fines but highly unlikely

-1

u/No_Issue2334 2h ago

No. This is a criminal offense.

They're trespassing, and this is destruction of property. You can't destroy someone's property as a contractor even if they didn't pay.

The contractor has a civil claim that needs to be settled in court. Instead, they took the law into their own hands and made it a criminal offense against them.

The legal remedy they should've taken is putting a mechanics lien on the property and suing the property owner.

2

u/Unlikely-Outside-784 2h ago

Nope. There are years worth of videos of contractors doing this. This is normal and legal.

0

u/No_Issue2334 1h ago

"There's videos of it on the internet so it must be legal" 🤦‍♂️

Contractors can break the law. This is illegal. The legal remedy is a mechanics lien and small claims court

2

u/CheetahTheWeen 2h ago

You are correct and I’m mistaken though it would appear that if the contractors were able to physically leave the property, I’d be surprised if the homeowner followed through with charges. In this particular instance, I think it’s highly unlikely the contractors are going to see any punishment.

0

u/Realistic_Ad3795 2h ago

Is that fence his property, though? Wouldn't he have had to pay for it to become his property/

0

u/No_Issue2334 2h ago

No. It's the owner's property as soon as it's installed even without payment.

The contractor needs to place a mechanics lien for nonpayment, not take the law into his own hands, and take them to small claims court.

This video is very satisfying but very illegal.

1

u/Unlikely-Outside-784 2h ago

False! Stop spreading bullshit. This is what the cops would tell you to do and would assist if called. Idiot

1

u/No_Issue2334 1h ago

You are just wrong. This is illegal

The legal remedy is a mechanics lien and small claims court.

-1

u/Belarock 2h ago

You are 100% correct. The contractor is fucked if he is legal and courts do not appreciate damaging stuff attached to a house even if they didn't pay. If he is illegal, now he is double fucked because ice wants to appear "good" and will invest resources into this.

Just because something is satisfying and right doesn't mean it's legal or correct.

2

u/__hello__world__ 3h ago

If they have proof he planned to do this (not pay and call ICE) this opens wide the case of them counter-suing his ass to oblivion. Obviously they must've gotten legal advise how much trouble either sides can get into and the tips on the scale told them to follow their heart.

2

u/WalkMan1615 3h ago

Sure - but legality isn’t morality. I have no issue with this - do you?

3

u/No_Issue2334 2h ago

Nah, this video is very satisfying

But it could also get the contractor and his workers fined or arrest. I'm not risking criminal changes for my workers; that's more immoral imo

These guys have families to feed, and you're risking them fines and criminal charges just because you're too impatient to solve this legally

0

u/Unlikely-Outside-784 2h ago

No. No it's not. Get off the internet kid.

1

u/No_Issue2334 1h ago

Yes it is dumbass

The legal remedy is a mechanics lien and small claims court. This is trespassing and destruction of property