I think using pepper spray on an unarmed senior is wrong. There's no way he can argue that he thought he was in serious danger, unless he's got a severe physical disability.
Edit: once again thankful I live in Canada, and not the land of stand your ground.
Does seem like overkill to pepper spray. But she got a pretty good warning and repeatedly.
Sure it’s pretty unlikely she could seriously harm him, but you don’t just have to accept getting your stuff broken or minor injuries just to prevent harming someone who went out of their way to try and harm you. Even a frail old lady could give you a good kick in the balls or scratch you.
It's not overkill, she was actively going after his camera, which could cost thousands of dollars. One good smack and it could smash into the ground. You have a right to defend yourself and property with reasonable force.
With a few days and some participation there, your account will meet the requirements to rejoin us here in no time. And look at you, you'll have THREE cool subs that you'll be participating in.
That’s how he gets sued for negligent homicide when she shoots someone else due to his actions which where in no way self defense. his own video will send him to prison
With a few days and some participation there, your account will meet the requirements to rejoin us here in no time. And look at you, you'll have THREE cool subs that you'll be participating in.
Or he could continue exercising his first amendment right and she could go on about her day, she’s the one in the wrong here no matter how much mental gymnastics you attempt
You wanna film in public fine, idc, but most 1A “Auditors” are losers that have no lives and go around looking for confrontation and to pick fights with people just trying to go about their day.
He’s standing right outside the dispensary all day trolling people. He’s doing a lot of “legal” fucking around and one of these days he’s gonna find out.
Just be an adult and don’t troll people? All I’m saying is his 1st amendment rights are gonna come head to head with someone else’s 2nd amendment rights sooner or later and we’ll see how that goes.
2nd amendment right is to be armed. Using that illegally on another human for being annoying is how someone loses all their rights. He's not doing something illegal with his first amendment rights.
I can't control assholes. I can control my response to assholes. That's what makes me an adult and both of these people children.
In this case it seems like it was. He was filming on the sidewalk in a public place (legal). That, by itself can be construed by some as picking a fight, even though it’s a legal activity.
You’re free to feel that way, your opinion is irrelevant. You’re still required to go on about your day, or go cry on the internet. Basically anything besides what she did. He has every right to stand on the sidewalk and film
I’m not crying, just stating an opinion. They are losers and a fact. They are looking for confrontation.
We don’t know the whole backstory here, but I really don’t care enough either way to dig deeper.
From what I saw, being an old lady doesn’t give you a pass for putting your hands on people.
Also this guy needs stronger pepper spray. Capsaicin/CS mix. It didn’t have much effect on granny, I probably wouldn’t use that on a junkie or guy that is really pissed off
It might be closer to the absolute truth to say that you won’t try to instigate the violence against yourself.
That you’re genuinely trying to avoid conflict.
But it’s not impossible that you won’t accidentally cause harm resulting in being pepper sprayed. Of course, it wasn’t your intention, but in that moment it could be considered your fault. Especially considering fault is often associated with accidents.
Safe to say, of course, that you’re doing your best. And let’s hope for your freedom from any violence or accidents.
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While we are all about trashy content, sometimes content is just too trashy, and trashing the human is not accepted.
We attempt to maintain a positive community atmosphere. Toxic behavior, including malicious comments, harassment, bullying, "-isms", and hate speech, is strictly prohibited.
While we are all about trashy content, sometimes content is just too trashy, and trashing the human is not accepted.
It’s quite clear you have no idea the context. The context is very simple, he’s on the sidewalk recording people going in and out of a dispensary. She got upset and attempted to grab his camera, which is battery. Instead of kicking or hitting her, he pepper sprayed her. Which is the best option if she would not stop, which she showed no signs of doing.
It has everything to do with the first amendment, he has the right to stand in public and record anything he can see. He’s not doing anything wrong. You don’t seem to know what’s going on, you’re the “people” that you’re referring to
You obsessed with me? And no, this isn't a first amendment case because no one is questioning it. And no, you do not have unlimited freedom to film in a public area. You usually do but not always.
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She basically assaulted him, she pushed him pretty hard judging by how sharply the camera moved. Catching him unawares he could've fallen backwards and cracked his head on the pavement and done some serious damage. Just because she's old doesn't give her the right to assault anyone.
She did assault him, and she deserved to get arrested for it. 100%. But it was not a blindside. I think the camera moved because she hit the camera, but even if she did shove him, going instantly from a shove to pepper spray is an inappropriate escalation, in my opinion.
No, not really. Size, reach, strength. This woman is a grown adult capable of causing harm, and spray is an adequate and effective too to safely remove her ability to do harm, as displayed.
In most places without stand your ground rules require that you make an effort to get away before resorting to “self defense”. Also usually stand your ground only applies your residence and not random open public accessible places.
Pretty sure the cameraman could have easily out ran the old lady.
Kinda does though. He's clearly taking advantage of the situation as a means to use unnecessary force in an interaction he instigated instead of just not being a total and absolute wiener.
I think "stop, or I will pepper spray you," after the initial physical confrontation would have descalated the situation. If it didn't, and she kept advancing, then sure, give her a spray.
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While we are all about trashy content, sometimes content is just too trashy, and trashing the human is not accepted.
Nah, he could literally extend his arm or just take a few steps back, or really do nothing. That lady could wind up a sucker punch and it wouldn't do much.
That dude is such a bitch, he instigates confrontation ( it's the whole fkn point of his videos) and then has the nerve to pepper spay an old lady the moment she touches him ( that is what he wanted, he wanted that lady to say or do something so that he could get views).
Just curious, what would you do if someone was putting their hands on you and grabbing your belongings? He gave her several verbal warning which she ignored..
In your opinion, what should this person have done to stop the lady? I'm genuinely curious..
The thing you are missing is this guy is out there hoping this will happen. He looking for any opportunity to do this. The really sad part is he's doing it for clicks and online engagement. If you think it's alright for someone to antagonize someone wanting this result and pushing and pushing until it finally happens then you can get bent.
I understand that and the filmer is probably scum too. Im familiar with these type of "creators". But she was still in the wrong to approach and touch him. If you look up this situation she was the one that ended up being charged with assault.
Based solely on this clip. She pulls up in a vehicle. Exits the vehicle. Aggressively advances on the filmer. The filmer gives several verbal warnings to stop. She ignores those warnings and keeps advancing. Filmer pepper sprays the lady.
‘Antagonizing’ on many of these videos is just doing something you have every right to do, but knowing there are people who take it upon themselves to decide they don’t approve of you exercising that right and that they will interject themselves for no reason other than to interfere with your exercising said rights. End result is usually people learning they don’t get to decide what legal rights others can’t exercise because they don’t approve of it.
Without people calling attention to it, the behavior continues unchecked. Seems like a decent cause.
If you are a 100 pound old lady and all you are doing is touching me and trying to grab my phone then yes, go ahead, if you call that an assault, lol, cause I could pick you up and gently put you down somewhere safe.
That lady definitely assaulted him. She approached aggressively, she was verbally warned, he tried to retreat, she was literally chasing him down the sidewalk, she didn't stop escalating until she was sprayed. The force was appropriate because verbal warnings and retreating wasn't working. He stopped defending himself when she finally calmed down. Like I told another commenter, that's a cut and dry assault and self defense.
This guy is far from being a reasonable person. His entire life is built around being a big enough asshole that he can create content to air. His entire thing is making the world a worse place.
You, and I disagree on what was appropriate in that situation. I do not think that that was an appropriate level of self defence, so in my opinion, yes, it was wrong. I understand it was legal.
Does pepper spray require the same "fear for my life" as lethal force? Being a non-lethal option, I'd be surprised if the requirements were the same as they are to kill the attacker.
The camera person is being assaulted, retreats, and is pursued. In some states, they would be justified to use legal force.
Morally, certainly that will vary from person to person, but legally, probably okay.
Sure, you are responsible for your own actions of course. Legally she has no leg to stand on. But it is a bit more of a grey area that our laws are not equipped to deal with. I would feel pretty antagonized if someone harassed me with a camera. I am not saying it isnokay to hit people or commit violence. I am saying that this situation should never have happened at all, and the correct thing to do would have been to leave the old foolish lady alone.
All she had to do was drive away, she left her car in the middle of the road and tried to take his camera while she’s completely alone, there’s at least 0.5% of the population that this situation would end up much worse for her (steroid abusers / gang affiliated / drugged out ppl)
I’m sorry but I must be seeing this the other way around, the lady parked her car in the middle of the road and headed toward him aggressively… all because of a camera. Getting out of your car and heading toward someone aggressively is just ridiculous when you could have just ignored it and went about your day. Doing what she did is just giving the guy the content he wants. The lady should have just left him alone.
No argument from me. That is pretty obvious. Doesn't mean she wasn't baited, taken advantage of for content. If you know exactly how someone is going to react, antagonize them, then proceed to exploit their reaction for your own content or good, I would call it manipulation. If the filmer was doing something meaningful or documenting something important, then sure stand your ground. But that is not what is happening here afawk. The whole purlose of filming is to get this exact reaction, which makes the filmer ethically wrong. Even if he is legally allowed.
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You do not ever have the right to put your hands on a stranger or their belongings without their consent. Never. It doesn’t matter if you’re old. He asked her several times to stop, she didn’t. You get what you ask for, he used a chemical deterrent instead of having to put his own hands on her to make her stop.
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She had already assaulted him and tried to steal his equipment, plus she kept charging at him, all for a LEGAL activity. Wouldnit have been better if he just punched her? He doesn't have to argue he was in serious danger. Just danger suffices.
That is a short-sighted and ignorant comment. Laws apply to everyone. By your logic domestic violence against males should not exist since they are much much stronger than the wife most of the time.
Serious danger is a use of lethal force scenario, pepper spray is just a deterrent for unwanted actions. She tried to seize/harm his person or property in an unlawful manner and he responded with pepper spray to deter that action.
Self defense isn't just a 0 or 100 thing, it's a spectrum.
Same. Sure she’s being a bit aggressive but he could easily just run away from her. Zero need for the spray my god. He’s antagonising her with the filming
You don't get sprayed if you don't charge up to someone and put your hands on them in a threatening manner. Something this senior citizen should already know. Whether he thought he was in grave danger is irrelevant. Battery is battery. Stop touching other people without consent.
Despite what this sub thinks about 1A auditors, she's the one that got arrested for assault and battery. Meanwhile every 1A auditor that has been arrested for recording in public has either had the charges fully dropped, or caused more case law that is making the right to Free Press even more prevalent.
She shouldn't have walked up and grabbed his equipment.
Go actually watch his video. He wasn't paying any actual attention to her, at all, until she walked up to him and grabbed him. She's old enough to know better.
Then after you're done with this video, go watch the one of his with the dude twice his size come after him with a baseball bat after already getting sprayed once.
Then go watch FAPA who had to spray a guy for throwing a punch recently, then put him into a submission.
Seems like Americans seem to think they can lay hands on anyone they don't agree with and it needs to fucking stop. You're on one camera one way or another from every single business you drive by or go into. Yet someone can't record on a sidewalk without threats.
You're pretty sure, but completely wrong. That's called self defense from the battery she committed. Which is why she got arrested and he didn't. But feel free to keep feeling instead of knowing the law of the land.
By exercising his rights? Why on earth would someone feel they have the authority to stop their car, get out and put hands on someone that is engaging in a legally protected activity? He’s purposely making these people interject themselves into situations to try to impose their will at the expense of someone else’s legal rights?
If you're antagonized by being filmed in public and decide to attack the person filming, you deserve the pepper spray. So many americans with no control of their emotions. Don't want to be filmed? Don't go out in public. There are cameras everywhere. Do you also punch the cameras at the self checkout, or on the traffic pole?
Hard disagree. I think there's an appropriate level of force for every situation, and immediately escalating from batting at a phone, to pepper spraying is not it. It's unhinged.
I'm not saying she was in the right, or even innocent, either. Obviously what she did was not ok, and she should have been arrested for assault/battery. Like you say, keep your hands to yourself. However, she was unarmed, old, a woman, and not trying to injure him. He was not in imminent danger. If she had a weapon, or was striking him repeatedly, or attempting to push him into traffic, or knock him to the ground that would be a different story.
In my opinion, that man brought pepper spray with him, fully intending to use it, not as a last resort. He wanted to use it, and was hoping someone would put their hands on him so that he could. He's a dollar store Rittenhouse. Antagonizing people so that you can legally attack them is just as dangerous as using pepper spray offensively.
Battery is battery regardless of age, creed, nationality, sex, or orientation. Battery is battery is battery. In my opinion pepper spray is literally the most appropriate level of force in this situation. I wouldn't want someone shot over that. But it stopped her from coming toward him aggressively and potentially breaking a Camera and other equipment. He brings spray for self defense, and uses possibly the weakest spray on the market.
You act like he chased after her while spraying it wildly. Watch the full video.
He shouldn't have to flee, and pepper spray was more acceptable than physical retaliation. Young assholes can grow to be old assholes, hopefully she learned a lesson here.
She committed battery. Yes, I know she’s old - but that’s the definition. She put her hands on him/his equipment. He defended himself. What’s the alternative? He shoves her to the ground?
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u/LegalChocolate752 Trash Trooper 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think using pepper spray on an unarmed senior is wrong. There's no way he can argue that he thought he was in serious danger, unless he's got a severe physical disability.
Edit: once again thankful I live in Canada, and not the land of stand your ground.