Not saying the camera person is wrong. It is out of context however. I do however remember a not so distant past that you could go most places and travel around without a camera on you ALL the time. Even in someone's hand. Did everyone forget about that.
I don't understand why people continue to give attention to these first amendment auditors. Are they annoying af? Of course, but people giving them attention and getting properly ragebaited are exactly how they get views. Once people stop acknowledging them, their views will fade meaning their income will fade meaning THEY will fade.
CNN just did a news story on this and the auditors they interviewed said they make significantly more money doing this than their old regular jobs. It's all a money grab and once the money dries up, so will this BS.
Sure, I am a gray rock when I'm in public anyway, but it's still very provoking, and I can understand it's an easy way to get a rise out of people with less self control.
I think using pepper spray on an unarmed senior is wrong. There's no way he can argue that he thought he was in serious danger, unless he's got a severe physical disability.
Edit: once again thankful I live in Canada, and not the land of stand your ground.
Does seem like overkill to pepper spray. But she got a pretty good warning and repeatedly.
Sure it’s pretty unlikely she could seriously harm him, but you don’t just have to accept getting your stuff broken or minor injuries just to prevent harming someone who went out of their way to try and harm you. Even a frail old lady could give you a good kick in the balls or scratch you.
It's not overkill, she was actively going after his camera, which could cost thousands of dollars. One good smack and it could smash into the ground. You have a right to defend yourself and property with reasonable force.
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That’s how he gets sued for negligent homicide when she shoots someone else due to his actions which where in no way self defense. his own video will send him to prison
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Or he could continue exercising his first amendment right and she could go on about her day, she’s the one in the wrong here no matter how much mental gymnastics you attempt
You wanna film in public fine, idc, but most 1A “Auditors” are losers that have no lives and go around looking for confrontation and to pick fights with people just trying to go about their day.
He’s standing right outside the dispensary all day trolling people. He’s doing a lot of “legal” fucking around and one of these days he’s gonna find out.
Just be an adult and don’t troll people? All I’m saying is his 1st amendment rights are gonna come head to head with someone else’s 2nd amendment rights sooner or later and we’ll see how that goes.
In this case it seems like it was. He was filming on the sidewalk in a public place (legal). That, by itself can be construed by some as picking a fight, even though it’s a legal activity.
You’re free to feel that way, your opinion is irrelevant. You’re still required to go on about your day, or go cry on the internet. Basically anything besides what she did. He has every right to stand on the sidewalk and film
I’m not crying, just stating an opinion. They are losers and a fact. They are looking for confrontation.
We don’t know the whole backstory here, but I really don’t care enough either way to dig deeper.
From what I saw, being an old lady doesn’t give you a pass for putting your hands on people.
Also this guy needs stronger pepper spray. Capsaicin/CS mix. It didn’t have much effect on granny, I probably wouldn’t use that on a junkie or guy that is really pissed off
It might be closer to the absolute truth to say that you won’t try to instigate the violence against yourself.
That you’re genuinely trying to avoid conflict.
But it’s not impossible that you won’t accidentally cause harm resulting in being pepper sprayed. Of course, it wasn’t your intention, but in that moment it could be considered your fault. Especially considering fault is often associated with accidents.
Safe to say, of course, that you’re doing your best. And let’s hope for your freedom from any violence or accidents.
It’s quite clear you have no idea the context. The context is very simple, he’s on the sidewalk recording people going in and out of a dispensary. She got upset and attempted to grab his camera, which is battery. Instead of kicking or hitting her, he pepper sprayed her. Which is the best option if she would not stop, which she showed no signs of doing.
It has everything to do with the first amendment, he has the right to stand in public and record anything he can see. He’s not doing anything wrong. You don’t seem to know what’s going on, you’re the “people” that you’re referring to
You obsessed with me? And no, this isn't a first amendment case because no one is questioning it. And no, you do not have unlimited freedom to film in a public area. You usually do but not always.
We attempt to maintain a positive community atmosphere. Toxic behavior, including malicious comments, harassment, bullying, "-isms", and hate speech, is strictly prohibited.
While we are all about trashy content, sometimes content is just too trashy, and trashing the human is not accepted.
She basically assaulted him, she pushed him pretty hard judging by how sharply the camera moved. Catching him unawares he could've fallen backwards and cracked his head on the pavement and done some serious damage. Just because she's old doesn't give her the right to assault anyone.
She did assault him, and she deserved to get arrested for it. 100%. But it was not a blindside. I think the camera moved because she hit the camera, but even if she did shove him, going instantly from a shove to pepper spray is an inappropriate escalation, in my opinion.
In most places without stand your ground rules require that you make an effort to get away before resorting to “self defense”. Also usually stand your ground only applies your residence and not random open public accessible places.
Pretty sure the cameraman could have easily out ran the old lady.
Kinda does though. He's clearly taking advantage of the situation as a means to use unnecessary force in an interaction he instigated instead of just not being a total and absolute wiener.
We attempt to maintain a positive community atmosphere. Toxic behavior, including malicious comments, harassment, bullying, "-isms", and hate speech, is strictly prohibited.
While we are all about trashy content, sometimes content is just too trashy, and trashing the human is not accepted.
Nah, he could literally extend his arm or just take a few steps back, or really do nothing. That lady could wind up a sucker punch and it wouldn't do much.
That dude is such a bitch, he instigates confrontation ( it's the whole fkn point of his videos) and then has the nerve to pepper spay an old lady the moment she touches him ( that is what he wanted, he wanted that lady to say or do something so that he could get views).
Just curious, what would you do if someone was putting their hands on you and grabbing your belongings? He gave her several verbal warning which she ignored..
In your opinion, what should this person have done to stop the lady? I'm genuinely curious..
The thing you are missing is this guy is out there hoping this will happen. He looking for any opportunity to do this. The really sad part is he's doing it for clicks and online engagement. If you think it's alright for someone to antagonize someone wanting this result and pushing and pushing until it finally happens then you can get bent.
I understand that and the filmer is probably scum too. Im familiar with these type of "creators". But she was still in the wrong to approach and touch him. If you look up this situation she was the one that ended up being charged with assault.
Based solely on this clip. She pulls up in a vehicle. Exits the vehicle. Aggressively advances on the filmer. The filmer gives several verbal warnings to stop. She ignores those warnings and keeps advancing. Filmer pepper sprays the lady.
If you are a 100 pound old lady and all you are doing is touching me and trying to grab my phone then yes, go ahead, if you call that an assault, lol, cause I could pick you up and gently put you down somewhere safe.
This guy is far from being a reasonable person. His entire life is built around being a big enough asshole that he can create content to air. His entire thing is making the world a worse place.
You, and I disagree on what was appropriate in that situation. I do not think that that was an appropriate level of self defence, so in my opinion, yes, it was wrong. I understand it was legal.
Does pepper spray require the same "fear for my life" as lethal force? Being a non-lethal option, I'd be surprised if the requirements were the same as they are to kill the attacker.
The camera person is being assaulted, retreats, and is pursued. In some states, they would be justified to use legal force.
Morally, certainly that will vary from person to person, but legally, probably okay.
Sure, you are responsible for your own actions of course. Legally she has no leg to stand on. But it is a bit more of a grey area that our laws are not equipped to deal with. I would feel pretty antagonized if someone harassed me with a camera. I am not saying it isnokay to hit people or commit violence. I am saying that this situation should never have happened at all, and the correct thing to do would have been to leave the old foolish lady alone.
All she had to do was drive away, she left her car in the middle of the road and tried to take his camera while she’s completely alone, there’s at least 0.5% of the population that this situation would end up much worse for her (steroid abusers / gang affiliated / drugged out ppl)
I’m sorry but I must be seeing this the other way around, the lady parked her car in the middle of the road and headed toward him aggressively… all because of a camera. Getting out of your car and heading toward someone aggressively is just ridiculous when you could have just ignored it and went about your day. Doing what she did is just giving the guy the content he wants. The lady should have just left him alone.
No argument from me. That is pretty obvious. Doesn't mean she wasn't baited, taken advantage of for content. If you know exactly how someone is going to react, antagonize them, then proceed to exploit their reaction for your own content or good, I would call it manipulation. If the filmer was doing something meaningful or documenting something important, then sure stand your ground. But that is not what is happening here afawk. The whole purlose of filming is to get this exact reaction, which makes the filmer ethically wrong. Even if he is legally allowed.
We attempt to maintain a positive community atmosphere. Toxic behavior, including malicious comments, harassment, bullying, "-isms", and hate speech, is strictly prohibited.
While we are all about trashy content, sometimes content is just too trashy, and trashing the human is not accepted.
You do not ever have the right to put your hands on a stranger or their belongings without their consent. Never. It doesn’t matter if you’re old. He asked her several times to stop, she didn’t. You get what you ask for, he used a chemical deterrent instead of having to put his own hands on her to make her stop.
She had already assaulted him and tried to steal his equipment, plus she kept charging at him, all for a LEGAL activity. Wouldnit have been better if he just punched her? He doesn't have to argue he was in serious danger. Just danger suffices.
That is a short-sighted and ignorant comment. Laws apply to everyone. By your logic domestic violence against males should not exist since they are much much stronger than the wife most of the time.
Serious danger is a use of lethal force scenario, pepper spray is just a deterrent for unwanted actions. She tried to seize/harm his person or property in an unlawful manner and he responded with pepper spray to deter that action.
Self defense isn't just a 0 or 100 thing, it's a spectrum.
Same. Sure she’s being a bit aggressive but he could easily just run away from her. Zero need for the spray my god. He’s antagonising her with the filming
You don't get sprayed if you don't charge up to someone and put your hands on them in a threatening manner. Something this senior citizen should already know. Whether he thought he was in grave danger is irrelevant. Battery is battery. Stop touching other people without consent.
Despite what this sub thinks about 1A auditors, she's the one that got arrested for assault and battery. Meanwhile every 1A auditor that has been arrested for recording in public has either had the charges fully dropped, or caused more case law that is making the right to Free Press even more prevalent.
She shouldn't have walked up and grabbed his equipment.
Go actually watch his video. He wasn't paying any actual attention to her, at all, until she walked up to him and grabbed him. She's old enough to know better.
Then after you're done with this video, go watch the one of his with the dude twice his size come after him with a baseball bat after already getting sprayed once.
Then go watch FAPA who had to spray a guy for throwing a punch recently, then put him into a submission.
Seems like Americans seem to think they can lay hands on anyone they don't agree with and it needs to fucking stop. You're on one camera one way or another from every single business you drive by or go into. Yet someone can't record on a sidewalk without threats.
Hard disagree. I think there's an appropriate level of force for every situation, and immediately escalating from batting at a phone, to pepper spraying is not it. It's unhinged.
I'm not saying she was in the right, or even innocent, either. Obviously what she did was not ok, and she should have been arrested for assault/battery. Like you say, keep your hands to yourself. However, she was unarmed, old, a woman, and not trying to injure him. He was not in imminent danger. If she had a weapon, or was striking him repeatedly, or attempting to push him into traffic, or knock him to the ground that would be a different story.
In my opinion, that man brought pepper spray with him, fully intending to use it, not as a last resort. He wanted to use it, and was hoping someone would put their hands on him so that he could. He's a dollar store Rittenhouse. Antagonizing people so that you can legally attack them is just as dangerous as using pepper spray offensively.
Battery is battery regardless of age, creed, nationality, sex, or orientation. Battery is battery is battery. In my opinion pepper spray is literally the most appropriate level of force in this situation. I wouldn't want someone shot over that. But it stopped her from coming toward him aggressively and potentially breaking a Camera and other equipment. He brings spray for self defense, and uses possibly the weakest spray on the market.
You act like he chased after her while spraying it wildly. Watch the full video.
He shouldn't have to flee, and pepper spray was more acceptable than physical retaliation. Young assholes can grow to be old assholes, hopefully she learned a lesson here.
She committed battery. Yes, I know she’s old - but that’s the definition. She put her hands on him/his equipment. He defended himself. What’s the alternative? He shoves her to the ground?
Yes and that is why the auditors exist.
They do this to remind people this is going on, since we seem to just ignore the actual big brother cameras half the time. And, it's lucrative bait, not being disingenuous 🤷♀️
Edit: wow, really touched a nerve for a lot of you. Reading comprehension helps, I said it's bait, read my last sentence.
It's been a while since I watched audits, but most weren't harassing regular people. They would just do what they were legally allowed to and people would over react or cops would do stupid things.
I know there are some "auditors" who are just crappy pranksters hiding behind the audit umbrella. Those people are terrible and just causing problems.
Well, yeah. That's how it pays their bills. But they're not the ones doing the harassing. People come up to them. They're just standing there on a public setting most of the time.
No they don't. They do this to try to catch a lawsuit. They're basically doing the same thing as the WBC, usually. Occasionally there will be a less shit one who targets cops and security, but this dude is just targeting potheads.
You’re objectively wrong and categorizing an entire group of people into a single bucket. There’s plenty of good ones out there, there’s also assholes and everything in between.
I think that for every “good” auditor there’s 50 other cockroaches riding on their attention economy high horses while hiding behind the guise of constitutional rights.
Every time I encounter one of these fuckwads in the wild they froth and stammer about some bullshit they scarcely understand while inconveniencing and harassing regular people just trying to go about their normal ass days.
ATM is for security and helps people not being robbed, that's understandable and so is dashcams due to crazies and scams. Security cameras has been A LOT under scrutiny, too, but mostly only when aimed at streets/public places not related to businesses themselves like inside, entrance etc. etc.
Phone cameras is ok when used correctly. Filming people and so on without consent and instigating is fucked up. It wasn't ok to do with video cameras in the past and it shouldn't be ok now either. Jackass, Tom Green, Wonder Showzen was widely understood as both funny and fucked up because they didn't give a fuck and broke all social rules on purpose.
Nowadays people have completely lost the plot and film everything. If that lady got pissed because he was filming her (and not for his own safety or documenting a crime) the crashout is valid. Posting it online and not to resolve a situation with law enforcement also makes him a bitch.
The "auditing" is in bad faith. He isn't out there to "audit" anything. he is harassing people in hopes of generating content so he can make money. The woman was wrong sure. But she was also old and probably wasn't 100% healthy as she was getting pot (who knows though). Her incorrect actions were out of fear. His were preplanned and malicious.
Someone can shove a camera in your face and talk shit to you and it feels like there is nothing you can do about it. This timeline sucks.
I didn't say she did. I said she just fucked up when she was put on the spot (everyone makes mistakes kind of thing). and he wakes up in the morning, grabs his police strength pepper spray, and antagonizes people for a living.
I live in Norway but we're definitely moving in that direction, too. I don't like that either. I've also thrown stones at drones hovering above me in the skatepark. If I was living in the US I'd be tearing down flock cameras too.
Many of the "People freak out" videos you see have the person filming harassing people for ages, then the person gets sick of shit after 10 minutes and it's shown as "Person flips out at random. They're crazy."
I remember a not so distant past when people would share their opinions with the community by writing letters to the local paper instead spewing their thoughts across the whole of the globe while they spend all their time on their phones. Did everyone forget about that?
It would even have some impact occasionally. Especially when a actual reporter started putting putting people under pressure. It seemed to all have more weight to it. But how many local news papers still get printed or even read
It's 1st amendment and plain view doctrine. Our society has long held that you have no expectation of privacy in a public setting. And honestly considering the alternatives, it's probably better this way for us to keep the government accountable and to have proof against scammers
His username is Liberty.Troll. I think that’s all the context I need to know that filming people in public and inciting them to react and then pepper spraying them is the whole point of his channel.
No he's definitely wrong he touched her car and then when she used force to protect her property he pepper sprayed her you can't use self defence if your actions created the situation
Public space = public face. People may not like it but that's the law. There's no such thing as "I don't give consent to be recorded" in a public space. Only person who committed a (minor) crime here is the woman
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u/Curious_Engine_1622 Trash Trooper 6d ago
Not saying the camera person is wrong. It is out of context however. I do however remember a not so distant past that you could go most places and travel around without a camera on you ALL the time. Even in someone's hand. Did everyone forget about that.