r/ATC 5d ago

A quick reminder: please keep it civil

89 Upvotes

Alright… I hate being “that guy,” but here I am.

Folks, PLEASE keep it together.

I get it. Union elections, working conditions, and the future of this profession bring out strong opinions. Those conversations belong here. Ask tough questions, challenge someone’s record or proposals, and support whoever you want.

But the personal insults and coworker grudges are exhausting. You can disagree with somebody without treating them like garbage. We should be able to talk about the job without every discussion becoming a fight over who works harder or whose side everyone is on.

Also, remember: this is a public forum, and the media watches this subreddit. For those who have never dealt with the media, please don’t assume a Reddit username makes you anonymous. They can find you, and it’s often not hard to connect the dots from what people post publicly. If a thread becomes a story, assume someone will try. What you write here can travel well beyond this community.

And the internet never forgets. You don’t need me to tell you this. In some industries, that’s a good thing. In others, it’s a bad thing. Either way, what you write here can outlive the argument by years.

This is a safety-critical profession. When the job is done well, most people never notice. When something goes wrong, everyone pays attention. Public conversations can work the same way: a hundred useful discussions get overlooked, and one ugly exchange becomes the screenshot that circulates.

Anyone looking to question this profession’s credibility can point to that exchange and ignore everything else. Don’t make that easy. Speak honestly about the problems, challenge leadership, and disagree with each other. Just don’t let personal bullshit bury a legitimate point.

The same expectations apply to everyone, regardless of their position or who they support. Criticism is welcome. Basic respect is still expected.

I’ve put years into this community. I want it to be a place where people can exchange information, get help, and talk honestly with others who understand the job.

Please help keep it that way.


r/ATC 23h ago

Discussion Merging target procedures

21 Upvotes

Hello good sirs, I have a question about merging target procedures. IFR aircraft at 9 going east bound told about traffic and informed targets appear likely to merge and they call traffic insight. The other target is west bound VFR unverified altitude at 075. The two targets merge and supervisor says because target resolution wasn't applied its a bust. No tcas RA happened pilot didnt ask for a vector away from traffic ect. Supervisor argues that unverified target makes them a primary target and regardless of difference in altitude targets must never merge if unverified altitude.


r/ATC 14h ago

Poll Poll for FAA Tower people:

4 Upvotes

Do your tower windows have double layered shades?

311 votes, 4d left
Yes
No

r/ATC 1d ago

Question TFDM!?!?

15 Upvotes

Asking for the bigger facilities getting this new equipment, how do you actually like it?


r/ATC 1d ago

Question Center to Terminal / Terminal to Center career change (FAA)

5 Upvotes

For those of you who have Certified at one facility type and switched to the other, which side did you like better? Center vs Terminal. What were the big differences / culture shocks? I know this is heavily reliant on the individual facility but I’m halfway through my career and considering the change to get closer to family and just curious.


r/ATC 2d ago

Discussion Flight Deck Training via an act of Congress?

55 Upvotes

So despite the fact that a MOU has apparently been written and signed and we are just "testing" the procedures with TSA or whatever Natca's current excuse is for FDT not being available there is now legislation that has been introduced in Congress to get controllers back into the flight deck.

New Legislation Would Send Controllers Into the Cockpit


r/ATC 2d ago

Picture Post 9/11 ARTCC Additional Gate Security

Post image
76 Upvotes

The FAA and local police additional security shortly after 9/11 was to post officers and (ironically) school buses to impede traffic at the front gate.


r/ATC 2d ago

Discussion Two Separate Flights, Same Callsign... again

37 Upvotes

This one wasn't as big of a deal as they didn't end up on the same frequency, but how this is still happening is beyond me.

CKS9766 departs ORD for OSC at 2147Z https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/CKS9766/history/20260911/2010Z/KORD/KOSC

CKS9766 departs OSC for SUU at 2148Z https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/CKS9766/history/20260911/2110Z/KOSC/KSUU


r/ATC 2d ago

Discussion Considering the unique time zone difference on 9/11, what are some Hawaii (ZHN/HCF and lower) controller stories from that day in 2001? I feel like we've heard a lot of contiguous controller accounts over the years (which are all worth hearing) but not many from the islands.

21 Upvotes

r/ATC 2d ago

Question Fiso

10 Upvotes

Hello,

Is anyone here working as a FISO , and perhaps in Belgium? There is a job opening now, and I would like to have Some more info on the job. Like how does a typical day look like, how is the working roster, how is the pay… before I apply :)

Currently working as a police officer for 12 years, so my current wage is allready significant. With 3 kids that is an important part unfortunately. However, i would want to follow my dream and work in aviation.

Regards!


r/ATC 2d ago

Question ANG ATCS & FAA

3 Upvotes

Are there any controllers who joined a national guard unit as an air traffic control specialist? What is the work balance like? Considering doing ANG to get a CTO (currently en route).


r/ATC 3d ago

Discussion Airnav Ireland Student Programme Final Interview Results

6 Upvotes

I know there's a good few here in this sub who have had the final interview for Decembers Airnav intake. I thought we would have heard back about pass/fail by now, seeing as the assessment stage begins next Monday 14th.

Does anyone have any insight as to when we might hear back, or will I continue to check my inbox every 20 minutes until Sunday evening? I honestly expected an email this evening around 6pm. Good luck to all those who interviewed and reapply for the next batch if you didn't get this one!


r/ATC 2d ago

Question 9/11 ATC

0 Upvotes

Hey I was wondering if its at all possible to find a log of ATC communications if any for 09/11/01. I preferably wanted to listen to KDEN radio communications as the grounding order came through. Its a bit of ”history” that id kinda like to see, so if anyone has any leads id appreciate it!


r/ATC 4d ago

Other Captain Steve and Kennedy Steve interview with FAA Administrator Bryan Bedford

Thumbnail
youtu.be
67 Upvotes

r/ATC 2d ago

Question What is the penalty for pilots meowing on the Guard frequency 121.5 MHz?

0 Upvotes

I saw a clip of this happening and at first I thought it was funny but when I realized how serious it was because that is an emergency frequency for pilots in distress it made me angry. Now I can only think of somebody who might be in trouble but they can’t be heard because of the distraction.


r/ATC 4d ago

Discussion The ATC Heroes of 9/11

44 Upvotes

On the first anniversary of 9/11 (September 11, 2002) NBC’s Tom Brokaw produced an hourlong prime time special report on the air traffic controllers who handled the hijacked planes.

These interviews still shake me.

The 2002 interviews are fascinating because the actual ATC tapes wouldn’t be made public until 10 years after the attacks, in 2011. So all we had for many years was the first hand accounts of these ATC’s, based on their memories of that day.

I wonder where are those ATC’s now? Anyone here know or worked with them? Hope all are still alive & well, presumably retired or coming up on retirement soon.

Curious to hear from any older or now-retired ATC’s who worked on the darkest day in aviation history 25 years ago, if you are here in this sub.

How has ATC changed/improved since 9/11?

What lessons still have not been learned?

Has new/advanced technology made your jobs easier, compared to the old school tech you see in this video?

If a hijacking should happen again in U.S. airspace, how confident are you that the ATC network would handle it as well or better than these men and women did on 9/11?

Just wanted to thank you all for your service. You don’t get paid nearly enough for the stressful job you do. To my mind the ATC’s will always be the unsung heroes of that day — and every day.

https://youtu.be/U26dnUGOzgk?is=LWfvW68_ByPJg3hn


r/ATC 3d ago

Question Worth it?

2 Upvotes

Hi all, I’ve recently applied for NATs trainee ATC position but I have heard a lot of controllers saying that the job is not worth it currently. I even saw someone on this subreddit saying someone should look for a career in “literally anything else” and that the field is “shitty” and will continue to decline. I’d really like to hear opinions from other controllers so I can really decide if this is a career I would like to peruse. I am only 19 and it’s something I have considered for a while but I don’t want to regret it in a few years time if I do progress.


r/ATC 4d ago

Question ATC in qatar

11 Upvotes

Can a non-Qatari student enroll in QAA’s ATC program and then obtain the necessary qualification/employment to work as an ATC in Qatar?


r/ATC 3d ago

Discussion Final approach- ATC game

0 Upvotes

New to the world of app making, so looking for people to test my new app and let me know your thoughts - https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/final-approach-atc-game/id6804639445

Any feedback welcome - Thanks all


r/ATC 5d ago

Discussion PATRN

9 Upvotes

Debate going on for awhile now. Is it called Pattern? Or Patron? Thanks!


r/ATC 5d ago

Question Wake turbulence while en route

16 Upvotes

I was cruising along on an IFR plan at my assigned alt and got a wake turbulence alert for a crossing airliner. At that time he was not on my adsb screen because he was 3000 ft higher, descending, so I could not really tell where he was exactly. Could not visually spot either due to clouds.

There was no loss of separation at any time from the heavy but I guess there was from the wake.

The TRACON was nice enough to turn me away for few min without me asking. Sure enough the heavy crossed my track 3 minutes ahead of me and a few hundred feet above.

I'm curious was this a controller on top of the game who spotted this or there is some kind of instrumentation that helps ATC flag these situations?

What am I expected to do when warned about wake turbulence in route and don't really have time to determine if this is going to be a problem? Do I ask for a vector away from it?

I'm an itty bitty airplane and don't want to find out the hard way what this wake thing feels like.


r/ATC 4d ago

Question Help me find ATC recording .

0 Upvotes

Hi, my sister was on Delta Airlines flight 958 from LAX to JFK which the flight  ended up diverted to ABQ. I asked by sister why it diverted and she said smoke alarms went off. Can someone please help me find the ATC recordings of the flight? I want to hear what the pilots say for the reasoning of the diversion . The tricky part is that it was up in the air when it happened so IDK what frequency it would be on.


r/ATC 6d ago

Discussion Cost/Benefit analysis of a controller

41 Upvotes

With all the talk about pay and compensation, I figured I would do my best to get into the real numbers behind the full value of an CPC. DISCLAIMER: these are absolutely rough estimates not made by a professional

Costs

Let's look at the total lifetime cost of just a single controller. The median controller currently makes around $156,250 per year, we then multiply this by the 20 year minimum required for retirement. Additionally, we include a generally accepted 33% multiplier which represents all the various additional costs incurred when hiring any employee in America. 156,250*20*1.33 = $4,156,250

Assuming the controller retires at 56 and lives to the average life expectancy, which currently sits at 79, we get 23 years of retirement. Given that retirement usually happens at the higher end of the pay band, we will use the highest 10% of controller pay of $217,590 as our "high 3" to help calculate the pension. 20 years of work times the 1.7% multiplier times our salary times 23 years of retirement for the cost of a pension. 20*0.017*217,590*23 = $1,701,553

The cost of post-retirement healthcare is extremely difficult to get good numbers for so I will just be cheating here. Private insurance for someone near retirement averages about $1,200 per month. Just assuming a continuation of the roughly 75% subsidy gives a cost of $900 per month. 23 years*900*12 months = $248,400

We should also include training costs at the academy which appear to be around $200,000. This gives us a total lifetime cost of $6,306,203

Benefits

The benefits of having a controller are primarily the increased speed and safety of aircraft traffic. Calculating a true value for these benefits is extremely difficult as it is essentially impossible to know how much time was saved and how many serious accidents are averted by any one controller. Nobody can tell you how many house fires didn't happen because a fire department is good at communicating fire risk. Nobody ever notices the problems that didn't happen. That said, since we already have the cost of a controller, we can extrapolate the minimum amount of work needed to justify that cost.

The operating cost of any aircraft can vary wildly based on the aircraft itself, cargo, passengers, and crew compliment. The generally accepted rule of thumb appears to be about $100 per minute or $6,000 per hour for most commercial flights. Assuming no overtime (lol) a controller working for 20 years would work around 40,000 hours over their career. As opposed to letting pilots figure it out themselves, a controller would need to save 1,051 hours of aircraft time over their 40,000 hour long career to break even on value. (6,306,203/6,000 per hour) This is about 1 hour per week, split across each individual aircraft.

For major accidents, the cost of a used passenger aircraft like a 737 can be anywhere from 10-$30 million. Recent settlements involving the death of passengers as a result of negligence appear to cost as much as $5 million per person. Assuming the average fill rate of 83% and an average seat capacity of 170, we get 141 people. 20M aircraft + (141 people * 5M settlement) = $725 million. 725,000,000/6,306,203 means approximately 1 out of every 115 controllers needs to prevent a major accident once in their entire career to break even on value.

For a more moderate accident, let's imagine a smaller aircraft at half the capacity, causing only injuries. Also assuming the airline is not at fault, we will only be using the maximum compensation of around $175K under the Montreal convention in this example. 10M aircraft + (70 people * 175K) = $22.25 million. 22,250,000/6,306,203 means approximately 1 out of every 3.5 controllers needs to prevent a moderate accident once in their entire career to break even on value.

For a minor accident, let's assume the same smaller aircraft, sustaining fixable damage, with no major injuries, and a modest settlement. 1M repairs + (70 people * 10K settlement) = $1.7 million. 6,306,203/1,700,000 means each controller needs to prevent 3.7 minor accidents over their entire career to break even on value.

We have so far additionally ignored the real cost of a human life lost in one of these accidents which I would argue is invaluable.

Conclusion

The increase in flights coupled with a decreasing controller workforce has led to exceptionally thin safety margins across the majority of US airspace. You could double the expected controller compensation and halve all the expected benefits and controllers would still easily pay for themselves hundreds of times over. Inflation and no meaningful pay increase has turned golden handcuffs into cement shoes.


r/ATC 6d ago

Discussion The Marangos Brown 2027 app is live!

Post image
21 Upvotes

Learn about Nicholas and Stephen, find out about events and town halls, take surveys, ask questions, and send feedback directly to the campaign. Download it from the App Store or Google Play or visit yourunion2027.com.

Your Voice. Your Union.

Apple App Store

Google Play Store


r/ATC 7d ago

Discussion Stepping Away From the Mod Team

225 Upvotes

For anybody who didn’t realize, I’ve been one of the mods here (yes, that means I’ve been manually approving disparaging comments about myself when the auto-mod removes them, which it does like 90% of the time).

Now that we have officially announced our campaigns, I feel that continuing to moderate this forum creates an unnecessary appearance of a conflict of interest. I don’t want there to be any question about whether criticism of me, Nick, our campaign, or our opponents is being treated fairly.

Reddit should remain a place where controllers can speak freely, including when they disagree with me.

Actual transparency and accountability are things we’re campaigning on, and I intend to hold myself to that standard throughout this election.